morbidium's Diaryland Diary ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Atheist Issues Listening to: Korn-Did My Time First, the topic starter: Why did the dinosaurs die out and every other animal continued on? Could it have been a catastrophic event? I know one that's plausable! A flood that destroyed the canopy of water that kept the air in our atmosphere more compresed....that would allow LARGE animals to breath. This flood could have been from large resevoirs in the earth and from a fractured canopy of water leaking. Leaving behind massive puddles across the earth (lakes), sculpting large mountains, and all draining back into the LARGE empty reservoirs (oceans). Throw in the possiblity that all the current contintents could have been one at one time and that it took a severe earthquake or something catastrophic to seperate them and this gives you an answer. Its all plausable and possible. Whole wooly mammoths being frozen in glaciers....It's possible with the flood theory. glaciers were probably formed under the water at very cold depths. and after there is no more canopy there is no more insulation causing drastic changes in the temps of the earth. Oh and there are other documents, myths and legends in many cultures that back this claim. Epic of gilgamesh anyone?
So how does all of this fit into the THEORY of evolution? And now the few of answers that smash this story to shit. 1. You are missing the point entirely. You claim the earth experienced this flood 4000 years ago. The Chinese civilization continues back-wards, un-interrupted 10,000 years.
You have a big problem. Your math doesn't work. Chinese history pre-dates your silly theory. The Chinese didn't notice this flood of yours. 2.
First, let us look at atmospheric pressure. For the earth's atmosphere, the pressure is almost exactly hydrostatic, since it is held to the earth by gravity and velocities are too low to significantly change the pressure. In plain language this means that the air pressure at any point is equal to the weight of the air in a unit area column above that point. At sea level, air pressure in US engineering units is about 14.5 pounds/sq inch because a column of air one inch square extending to the top of the atmosphere weighs (Guess what!?) 14.5 pounds. On top of Mt. Everest, the pressure is lower because the lowest and densest 9km of the atmosphere is below that point. Now the "vapor canopy" would form a part of the atmosphere, being a body of gas (water vapor) gravitationally held to the earth. It would in fact be most of the pre-flood atmosphere. There would have to be enough vapor to form 9km of liquid, when condensed, and, therefore the vapor would weigh as much as 9km of water. The pressure at the earth's surface, where Noah and family lived, would be equal to one atmosphere PLUS the weight of a 9km column of water of unit area. This is equivalent to the pressure 9km deep in the ocean. What is this pressure? Well, each 10m of water is roughly equivalent to one atmosphere, so the pressure would be 900 atmospheres. The atmosphere would also have a composition of about 900 parts water vapor to one part of what we call air today. How could an atmosphere almost 100% water vapor not condense? The temperature would have to be raised to the point where the partial pressure of water equals 900 atmospheres, i.e. the boiling point at that pressure. So we find Noah et al. living in a 13,000psi boiler. Is this credible? 3. If all of the Chinese perished in the flood, (which they must, because none of Noahs children were Chinese), How do you explain that their written history is un-interrupted back 10,000 years? There is no gap in the writing. Someone must have made up the history for a few hundred years untill China was re-populated by Noahs non-Chinese decendants. Do you see a problem here? Don't you think there would have been a mention that everyone was drowned and died?
I have not even mentioned that Egyptian history predates, and post-dates the flood without any mention.
You have a real conundrum here. The original Fundie's reply I would like to know where your sources are as well as far as There is no gap in the writing And as far as Noah not having any chinese decendants I would like to see how you ruled this out I would provide a link but i am using a book from a volume of encyclopedias in my house sorry 'bout that... plus i wouldn't know how to make a link More reply's to blow the whole story 1. have several references.
I have many more. I think it would be much easier for you to provide a Chinese wife for Noah. Unless you are claiming another immaculate conception, Noah would have to mate with a woman of Chinese descent. Unless, of course, you are claiming Noah was Chinese. Then you must consider that even if either one were Chinese, their descendants will only be 50% Chinese, there-by creating a situation where pure Chinese descendants will be impossible. You have just succeeded in destroying the Chinese race.
You still have a real conundrum. 2. Is the Noah story plausible? Noah's ark was approximately the size of the Staten Island Ferry, maybe slightly larger. There are 220,000 know distinct species () all of which would have to survive for about a year. There were 2 of each species (some say 7 of each except the unclean animals). Lets assume 2 of each, that's 440,000 creatures on the ark. There were 8 people on the ark. Lets assume that each creature is fed only once a day. We will also assume that The Noah Clan feed animals for 8 hours a day, Clean up the mess made by 440,000 creatures for 8 hours a day and spend 8 hours sleeping and eating themselves. 440,000 Creatures / 8 people / 8 hours / 60 minutes = 114.6 Each person would have to feed and water 114 creatures every minute, without a break. Now I know that it takes about 10 minutes to feed and water a single horse. I would think a Polar bear would take a little longer. I'm not too sure where Noah would keep a year's supply of bamboo shoots for the Panda's or how he managed to get to China to capture the Panda's in the first place, but I feel quite sure he could not locate and prepare the food, then feed the panda's in 0.5 seconds before moving on to the next species, which he would also have to feed and water in about half a second. I'm sure that some of the animals could find their own way to their food stores and rustle up a tasty snack but many creatures such as the Amazonian humming birds are specialist feeders and would need more than a mere 500 milliseconds of attention. Lets do some more calculations:- The length of the ark was 300 Cubits which is about 480 feet. If we assume Noah kept the food supplies in the middle of the Ark for easy access. The maximum distance he would have to walk to get food is 240 feet and the minimum 0 feet. On average he would have to walk 120 feet to get food for each animal or 240 feet for a round trip. Now we know that Noah and his 7 staff had to feed one animal about every 0.5 seconds. If we assume he spends half that time feeding the animals and half the time fetching food, we can see that poor old Noah would need to run at an average speed of about 350 miles per hour. From a standing start, Noah would need to accelerate from zero, up to nearly the speed of sound in a quarter of a second, then decelerate back to zero in the same period. that's pretty good for a 600 year old man. Accelerating a human body from 0 to the speed of sound in a quarter of a second would cause that human body to immediately explode. The Ark was built on 3 or 4 decks, so Noah and his staff would have to negotiate stairs at very high velocities. The shock wave generated by such violently dynamic movements would cause severe structural damage to a wooden vessel. The friction caused by such high velocity bodies would cause the Ark to catch fire. If we assume Noah split the crew up into three, 8 hour shifts with 3 people on the busy shifts, we can calculate that the food store would be accessed 6 times a second by three people traveling close to the speed of sound. Collisions with a combined velocity of over 1000 miles per hour would have been common. I can just visualise Noah rocketing down a ladder with a small Eucalyptus tree for the Koala's .... Colliding with Mrs Noah coming in the opposite direction carrying a large tub of Elephant Diarrhoea. That would be one Huge "Whoosh-Splat". Even if they managed to avoid a collision, how many leaves do you think would be left on the Eucalypus tree by the time it gets to the Koala's? If we now assume that there were 7 of each species (except unclean animals) al the velocities would need to be multiplied by about 3.5. Of course this is all plausible..... 3. The few remaining christians that subscribe to this piffle make the other christians appear stupid or dishonest. The story is laughable at every scientific level. The physics involved (as you clearly prove), the genetic obstacles, the geological record, the ark itself, but most of all..................just common sense., nullifies this story for all but the most credulous, closed-minded idiots. Every-time a christian cruises in here and spews this trash, I get all giggly anticipating the ever-approaching, enormous bloody, train wreck of logical thinking. The lengths christians will go to when confronted with irrefutable evidence; including the ignoring of facts to simple out-and-out prevarication, just sets my day up as a fun filled extravaganza of sidestepping and deceit. No one does it better than a christian cornered by ignorance! Too funny! 4. The longest wooden ship ever built was the USS Wyoming at 110 meters. It was so unstable and leaky in moderate swells that it was virtually useless. The pumps worked 24 hours a day when she was at sea. The ark was 50% longer again and of a rectangular shape which is structurally weak and unseaworthy. It would be interesting to know how Noah housed the 10,000 species of termites on the ark and how he fed them for at least a year. Not to mention the hundreds of species of marine worms that would have demolished the ark below the waterline. Did Noah know that a pair of elephants eat 300 kg of greenery per day and excrete approximately a third of that weight per day? The aquarium for the whales and another for their food would have taken up a bit of room. Water deep enough to cover Everest would be around 9km deep. Twice a day tidal waves hundreds of feet high would have cirled the Earth gathering momentum and volume as time passed. The ark could not have survived. Morover, the huge uneven distribution of this water mass would have seen the Earth wobble severely on its axis of rotation and this could have had disastrous effects on its orbit of the sun. Now, with this posted, I will add that I mean NO disrespect to any Christian. They can believe what they want, but these posts are a basis for myself, and why I do not believe in God or any other myth. 7:31 a.m. - October 27, 2003 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
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